Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-05-02 (presentation)Minutes of the Presentation by Dr. Michael Chandler to the Town Council on November 5th, 2002 at 6:00 p.m.in the Council Chambers of the Municipal Building. Mayor Stewart: Dr. Chandler, if you would come forward and do your presentation, we would appreciate it. Dr. Chandler: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I appreciate the invitation from Mayor Stewart to come and visit with you. I understand that an issue of interest for Council involves land within your community that has appropriate land use and best use for that particular parcel or territory. And, it is my understanding that the Council is giving some consideration to again both proposed land use and then zoning. And a, the parcel in question is a parcel that Council looked at about four years ago in terms of proposed potential rezoning of the property. And I believe, if memory serves correct, in looking at your minutes from your meeting, the Planning Commission, as well as Town Council, at that point and time thought that a rezoning of the property from the then existing zoning designation to a B-2 designation was not in the best interest of the community. And a, I believe that that’s the particular parcel that is again in question. And ah, the Mayor made inquiry, by way of phone call, as to the extent to which communities choose to zone property. And of course there are ways that properties can be zoned and or rezoned. As you’re probably familiar the Code of Virginia allows for a Council or governing body to rezone property, Planning Commission to rezone property, and then, most typically, the rezoning of property occurs in direct response to a petitioner making that request. Whenever a community rezones property, as we all are aware, certain things must be satisfied or at least addressed in terms of code requirements and as one considers the code of the Commonwealth, looking at the purposes of zoning under 15.2.2283 and then 2284, the section of the Code that specifically provides guidance relative to the drawing up and then applying the zoning districts in the community, the Comprehensive Plan is one of the key elements to be considered in any such determination. Associated with the Comprehensive Plan, there are several other criteria to be considered when a parcel of territory or land is zoned or rezoned. And when we look at 2284, many of those criteria, there are 12 if memory serves correct, a vast majority of them address issues that we associate with the traditional planning process – not only the land use plan, but most appropriate use of the territory in relation to the communities goals and objectives; the needs, considerations relative to the tax base; needs, considerations relative to the community from a residential perspective; the appropriate use of the territory in relation to your public facilities. Those variables typically are considered, and rightly so, when a community chooses to zone its property. The issue before you is one that is of obvious interest to the Council and I’m sure to the community. Council needs to give some consideration again, to the means by which it chooses to zone the property. Typically, when we zone property, by benefit of a fairly recent, (five years ago), Supreme Court ruling here in the Commonwealth, in fact south of here down in Jonesville, (Lee County), county seat for Lee County Jonesville – a case that the Virginia Supreme Court ruled that the community could not engage in the zoning exercise or an action that resulted in the zoning of property, without benefit of a guiding Comprehensive Plan. And that particular ruling is of interest, I think, across the Commonwealth, because it provides, from the vantage point of the Virginia Supreme Court, the value, utility and emphasis that the court places on the Comprehensive Plan as a guide and as a point of reference in making a determination, ultimate determination of how to zone property. I guess probably the key point that I bring to you this evening, both from an educational or academic perspective, but also, as one of your compatriots in my role as a Council member in Blacksburg, that whenever we rezone property, it’s critical that we do so with full benefit and guidance from our Comprehensive Plan. That should be an essential basis for the ultimate decision that we make relative to appropriate use of a parcel or parcels in the community. And if you want to make a change in your Comprehensive Plan, of course you are entitled to do so, just as you’re entitled as a governing body, to zone land according to how you see fit. But if zoning is going to be different from that which is presently reflected or commented upon or captured in the Comprehensive Plan, then, in a more perfect world, we would adjust the Comprehensive Plan as the basis and then make your zoning adjustment. I suppose, Charles, that might be an appropriate place to maybe stop and see if there are questions, comments, and whether or not that is, that I can answer that you may have or Council may have? Mayor Stewart: Yeah, I have a personal question. We are rezoning this from B-2, or from R-0, R-1 to B-2 and it is totally surrounded by, on three sides at least by prime residential. Could you give us some idea how the courts tend to look at imposing commercial property into a residential property? Dr. Chandler: It’s hard to suggest or guess as to what a court might, how they might perceive such an action. Again, if memory serves correct, four plus years ago, the Council record saw fit not to approve a rezoning of the parcel. And there was some question as to whether or not Council would have to defend its actions in a court or in the court system. Case law in Virginia, in the last twenty plus years has revealed on the part of the Virginia Supreme Court, an extreme willingness to support the action of the local governing body. When the court is satisfied that the actions taken by the local governing body are supported by the intent of the code. If a governing body chooses to zone a parcel of territory in whatever fashion, they must be able to rationally justify that action. In a case where you’ve got a land use or a parcel that is surrounded on three sides by a, say residential use, and you’re looking to introduce a commercial use, ah, you’re within your right to do that, but ah, it would probably be critical that the Council be able to explain the reasons justifying that change in zoning, the conditions that have changed, the changes that have occurred in the community that would lend support to Council’s actions. And, typically, that benefits from a Comprehensive Plan study or analysis. And that’s typically why most jurisdictions when they rezone a parcel of land or territory, they do so with the full knowledge and benefit of the accompanying planning study or analysis. There’s nothing that suggests that our Comprehensive Plans must be, you know, stones around our neck. They’re not etched in concrete or set in stone. They have to be flexible. Zoning has to be flexible. We must recognize that reality. But if we are to make a change in the zoning, which of course regulates what actually occurs on a parcel of territory, then there should be some cause/effect relationship in terms of your guiding Comprehensive Plan. And if a property in question is surrounded or is favored by or adjacent to uses of a residential nature, then the introduction of a commercial use should be done only with close attention given to the rational and basis for that. And if a decision is made to introduce or interject a commercial use in what traditionally has been a residential area, then obvious consideration should be shown for transitions, buffer lines, things of that nature. But the initial test is whether or not the existing on-ground zoning is no longer appropriate for the community. If it is no longer appropriate, then you use that as a basis for why you’d want to entertain a change in land designation or use. And again, you would use your Comprehensive Plan as a basis for arriving at that conclusion. In a more perfect world, in terms of process. Mayor Stewart: Okay, do any members of Council have any questions of Dr. Chandler? Mr. Bolen: Yes. What weight do you give for the Planning Commission’s recommendations to your Council? Dr. Chandler: Well, typically, when we look at, again, the Code, the Code suggests that we can adopt a plan or zoning ordinance in a County, City or Town, without benefit of Planning Commission recommendation. Typically, a community that has faith in its Planning Commission and the extent to which the Commission performs its duties in an exemplary fashion, they’re typically close to, if not closer to, the plan and ordinances than maybe even the Council. Typically, I think governing bodies tend to place a high value and premium on what the Planning Commission recommends. After all, you’ve, most of you have appointed them and you appointed them for purposes of not only willingness to serve, but confidence in their judgement and their ability to understand the goals, objectives of the Town as captured in the Plan, and their ability and willingness to support those goals and objectives. So, if a Planning Commission has an opinion on the issue, then it’s one of the items that a governing body would indeed want to consider. But you’re not bound by the ah… Code doesn’t tie your hands. If you see it differently, you enjoy that legislative discretion to see it differently. Mrs. Mitchell: What is the big difference between B-1 and B-2? Dr. Chandler: Well, B-1 and B-2 if ah, gosh, I’d have to go back to the Ordinance. B-1 is more of a, like a neighborhood business district, if memory serves correct. It allows for businesses, but it’s on a less intense… Mrs. Mitchell: On a smaller basis? Dr. Chandler: Smaller basis, not as intense. B-2 is, for Pulaski, is more of a traditional kind of commercial district, and your B-3, I believe, is your downtown, your central business district. So B-1 is more of a neighborhood kind of a focus, which could be ah… Mrs. Mitchell: Still could have grocery stores and stuff like that? Dr. Chandler: Sure, we’ve got one of those in Blacksburg, on Prices Fork Road. At Heathwood, there on the corner. That’s considered a neighborhood business use. Most of what occurs there is in response to what the perceived needs of the population living right there, within walking distance or a bus ride or car or bicycle. Mrs. Steger: And that one’s pretty big, so you can have a rather large complex? Dr. Chandler: Well, that one, I don’t recall the square footage. You’ve got, they’re redoing the Food Lion as we speak, but you’ve got Food Lion, you’ve got ah, well, for years, you’ve got dentist office, pizza restaurant, kind of a children’s book store, toy store type thing, and a gas station. Mrs. Steger: Right, so B-1 can be large. Dr. Chandler: Well, in a physical sense, yes. You’d look at your ordinance and particular in terms of floor areas and all that sort of thing. Mrs. Steger: But B-2 could be even larger. Dr. Chandler: B-2 is your more, for you all, is your more traditional commercial kind of designation. Yeah. That you might associate with what you have on Bob White Boulevard, things like that. And I think this is a proposed potential of a B-2, which would be a more intensive commercial designation. Of course, the temptation is always great to use that when you have a nice road like you have there. And ah, that can be a factor, obviously, driving some of the thinking that’s present here on that particular issue. If you choose to develop it in something other than the residential or the R-O, I guess, Residential with office, then you would want to ah… give some real attention to the design of the complex. You might even want to utilize, as I think was talked about four years ago, a conditional zoning or proffering system. A planned business district, nothing wrong with having a planned business district. If you, if in the wisdom of the Council, you wanted to introduce business there, do it through a planned commercial business district designation. Add that to your zoning ordinance as an overlay district and then you could specify specifically what would go in there, the design of that improvement, buffers, transitions, etc. Rather than just a carte blanche kind of B-2. Cause in B-2, a lot of things can happen. Mayor Stewart: Yeah. If you could eluce… you know, I put forth a fairly large speech on that. The feeling of most people is if the Council just cuts loose and rezones the thing B-2, then we have totally lost control of what can go in there. Dr. Chandler: Well, yeah, anything that’s under B-2 is permissible and I might come before you and say that I’m going to give you 1,2,3 under B-2. I may decide, once I actually begin developing the property, to give you something completely different. That’s also permissible by right under B-2. Mayor Stewart: Yeah. Dr. Chandler: So there’s no guarantee that what I’m promising orally, is actually going to come to fruition. Mrs. Steger: Can Council put restrictions on that zoning? Dr. Chandler: B-2 is by-right. You’ve got some by-right uses… Mayor Stewart: I think you need to make clear what by-right means, because I have a feeling that that’s not fully understood by all in here. Dr. Chandler: All right. I don’t know that I have the zoning ordinance with me, but by-right means that whatever is permitted Mr. Hawley: Dr. Chandler: No that’s the old zoning… Dr. Chandler: Whatever, let’s just turn to something that says B… B-2- you’ve got listed uses by-right. That means that all that one has to do is have the designated zoning and then come in and be able to show that what I want to do under B-2 is permitted by-right. Then it’s just a question of satisfying for Mr. Hawley’s engineering concerns, Mr. Quesenberry’s planning concerns… it’s just a question of like putting… if the plan says residential, the zoning says residential, then I get to build the number of houses according to the subdivision ordinance. So, in a B-2 by-right, anything that’s listed can be built. There’s no special requirement or sanction needed from the governing body to allow me to do what’s listed under B-2. All I’ve got to do is satisfy for the subdivision process. So whatever’s in B-2 is permissible. Mrs. Steger: If it’s… Dr. Chandler: If it’s approved. If you say B-2. If you wanna do something there other than residential, then it ought to be of a planned nature, either through a conditional proper rezoning or through your planning study, updating your Comprehensive Plan for that section of Pulaski, maybe come in with a planned business or commercial district. And in a planned commercial district, you set the ground rules. You establish what goes in there, by-right, by special use permit. Mrs. Steger: Council, you’re speaking of? Dr. Chandler: Yeah. Yeah. You establish that. Mayor Stewart: Well, actually the Planning Commission usually does that for Council approval. Dr. Chandler: Planning Commission would be a participant in the process as well. But sure, that would be, that’s how it works. By-right is a simple term, but sometimes a complex term, because, but basically, what that means is that whatever the plan… now see, in this instance, your plan doesn’t call for the commercial development. If you change your zoning to B-2, then you need to go back and amend and modify your Comprehensive Plan so the two are in alignment. But, whatever the zoning is and if it falls to the ground, then whatever’s permitted by-right, according to your zoning ordinance, is what I could, or you, or anyone else could put in there. Mrs. Steger: Thank you. Mayor Stewart: And there’s nothing the Town can do to stop it as long as he meets site plan and… Dr. Chandler: No. No. You meet the site plan requirements, then, then I get to build whatever it is I’m wanting to build there, even if the citizens are opposed. And that’s where we sometimes, as elected officials, get ourselves into boxes. We’ve had this happen in Blacksburg on several occasions, where there is a vacant field and the zoned plan says it’s future residential development and then the zoning allows for future residential development, but it kind of lays fallow for twenty, thirty years, and then someone comes in and they want to build. And the hue and cry is “Don’t let them build there”. But if the Plan and zoning call for development, we can’t stop it. We could vote it down, but we would lose when we go to Circuit Court to defend our actions. Because the court would say, “if you’re planned for residential, you’re zoned residential, why are you saying no to residential?” It doesn’t make any sense. Mrs. Steger: But would the same thing apply in the courts? Dr. Chandler: Sure. Mrs. Steger: The court would reject it, if it was planned for business and so forth? Dr. Chandler: Yeah. Yeah. You could turn it down because the public doesn’t want it, but if it’s a by-right use that I’m entitled to, when we go to court, the court would say, he gets to build what he wants to build. Mayor Stewart: So, if the Town’s going to control what goes in there, then you can’t just give it a B-2 zone. You’ve got to give it some other controlling thing that would make the guy… Dr. Chandler: I would think so. What you would want to do at a minimum, is look at what’s permitted under B-2 by-right, and if you can live with everything that’s on that list, then maybe you don’t worry about it. But if you look at some of the items on that list by-right, then you think that no, that wouldn’t work there because of the surrounding land use, then that should be enough to motivate you to not want to change it to B-2. You would want to do your planning study, do your zoning study. If in the final analysis, you want some mix of commercial or business there, then temper what you want, be selective in what you want, and then position it through your plan and zoning ordinance as to how much, what would go there, where would it go on the property, how would you buffer it from the surrounding residential land uses. Mayor Stewart: In effect, the Town would get to design what’s going to be there… Dr. Chandler: Exactly. Mayor Stewart: Instead of just throwing it open carte blanche for the developer. Dr. Chandler: Right. Exactly. In a lot of communities, Blacksburg included, we’ve kind of gotten in trouble there – we have a general zoning classification and we think well, you know, this makes sense, and then we discover that particular use won’t really work well in that neighborhood. So that’s why the conditional zoning or the planned commercial designation, planned industrial designation, ah, your historic district is an example of a special district. You can have planned commercial designations, planned business designations and then you draw up the rules and you set the standards and then when I want to come in and do that, then, I dance according to the music that you’re playing. And if I don’t want to do that, then I don’t have to locate my business in that portion of Pulaski. It provides you more control. Mayor Stewart: Any other questions from anyone of Dr. Chandler? Well, as parting comments, your feeling is that if we want to control what goes in there, we should set up a planned commercial district or a mix of something? We have an R-5, which allows us to put, in essence, a planned community in there. Dr. Chandler: Um-hm. Mayor Stewart: We could rezone it to that and then that gives the Council and the Planning Commission full input on what can be done by proposed developers. Dr. Chandler: That’s, that would be correct. It ah, and maybe Council’s already had deliberation on the parcel in question and there’s already a sense of Council as to what, in Council’s judgement and estimation, would be best for that section of your Town and your community in general. But if you haven’t had that conversation, you probably should have that conversation first and foremost. Mayor Stewart: Well.. Dr. Chandler: Decide as a Council, what you feel would be most appropriate for that section of your community and if it’s at variance from what your current Comprehensive Plan suggests, then modify your plan, ask the Commission to take it under advisement. You can, as a Council, specifically ask the Planning Commission to perform a study for you. You can ask them to analyze that section of the Town of Pulaski and in 90 days, 120 days, report back to you their estimate as to what would occur if we went this way, what would occur if we went another way in terms of land development. Mayor Stewart: Yeah. Dr. Chandler: Rather than just jumping in and rezoning it. You always have to be able to respond to the public. If you’re going to change the zoning, someone’s going to ask you why? And their going to want an answer from you that makes some sense, I would think. Mrs. Steger: Dr. Chandler, were you familiar with the other zoning for the Wal Mart that was only on one side of the highway? Do you remember, Mr. Hawley? That was… Dr. Chandler: Well, what I’m recalling… Mr. Hawley: The initial… Dr. Chandler: Four years ago, back in ’98 or something. Mr. Hawley: Are you referring to four years ago, or the one where the current Wal Mart is now? Mrs. Steger: Where the current Wal Mart is. Mr. Hawley: Yes. I was obviously working here when that was happening, yes maam. That was around, we annexed in ’87, it was about the time we annexed on that, so about the same time – around ’87. Mrs. Steger: And that was zoned B-2. Mr. Hawley: That was zoned B-1 conditional. Mrs. Steger: Conditional. Mr. Hawley: But if you look at the current requirements for B-1 in our current zoning ordinance, versus what is in B-2 in the proposal, it’s very similar. But the one, in, I guess, we looked at research… I guess the other center was built in about ’91, so it was probably rezoned about ’89, and it was B-1 conditional. But the uses in the old zoning ordinance are different from the ones in the proposed ordinance. Mrs. Steger: In the new Comprehensive Plan. Mayor Stewart: Yeah. The point being that when it was conditional, there were certain conditions they had to make to satisfy the Town. Correct? Mr. Hawley: Yes sir. There was a proffer sheet of about 12, 13 items … there was a proffer sheet that was presented to Council for conditional rezoning. Mayor Stewart: A proffer sheet, being, for the benefit of Council… A proffer sheet is a list of things that the developer will do. Dr. Chandler: Guarantees. In writing. Mayor Stewart: Yeah. Dr. Chandler: His name or her name signed to it and they have the force of law. Mayor Stewart: Right. Dr. Chandler: And you’ve got, you’ll have conditional zoning obviously, and it’s ah, and so that could be another option with something like this. Mayor Stewart: Anyone from Council? That pretty much covers what I had, Dr. Chandler, so, unless there’s some things you want to offer? Dr. Chandler: No, we’ve had some, of course yourself and others from Pulaski have participated in some of the structure training programs for Planning Commissioners. Some of you are new to the Council. There is a ten week course designed to assist persons serving on local Planning Commissions to gain understanding, perspective of what it means to serve on the Planning Commission and what planning is and some of the legal foundations of planning in Virginia. The Mayor has taken that course. Others in your Town staff have taken it. Similar course for Boards of Zoning Appeals and we’ve also, through the Extension function at Virginia Tech, which I’ve been affiliated with for twenty-eight years, provide training programs directly for an individual locality or government, so if there’s interest on the part of Council and or the Commission, in exploring some of these issues in more detail, we’d be happy to assist where possible. Mayor Stewart: I do believe that three members, at least three members that I know of, are certified planners and have taken the course. That would be myself and Nick Glenn and I believe, Katie Kirk. Dr. Chandler: I believe that’s correct. And David. Mayor Stewart: David Quesenberry. Dr. Chandler: David took the course as well. Yeah. Mr. Hawley: And I think we attempted to register some people this time, but didn’t get in. Dr. Chandler: Yeah. October class filled up. We’re going to have one in March and we’d be more than happy to accommodate interest that Pulaski may have in the course. The course hopefully helps a little bit. It doesn’t answer all the questions, obviously. It’s a tough line of work that we’re in as sort of citizen volunteers, selected by our colleagues. I truly admire what you do as Council members, because I’ve been doing the same thing since 1984 and it can be a tough line of work. But I think our task can be made somewhat simpler to the extent to which we feel comfortable and confident in our plans, our ordinances, our strategies, our goals, our objectives. Thus again, I come back to the Comprehensive Plan as being something more than just a guide. It is a guide, but if we as a community, feel that we can capture in pictures and words, an image of what we want our town, cities and counties to become, then the test of the plan is our willingness to stand by that plan. And sometimes that takes both political as well as community will. And we don’t change the plan or the ordinance, just at a, you know, snap of the finger. We should change our plans and ordinances only when we have concluded, through reflection, analysis, and study, that it’s in the best interest of as many people as we can consider. Short of that, if we’re just arbitrarily changing our plans and ordinances in a whimsical fashion, then there’s not a whole lot of value that either we, or our citizens, can place in our plans and in our ordinances. Mayor Stewart: Could you give us some idea of what the usual impact is when you insert a commercial operation in the middle of a residential? Dr. Chandler: Well, it again would vary, Mr. Mayor. But obviously, you’d be looking at transportation impacts. I think the study of 4 ½ years ago suggested that the road network would probably handle that, which it probably would. You of course, look at water and sewer as impacts and chances are you’re probably in pretty good shape there as well. So when we think about an infrastructure impact, it’s probably not, maybe terribly great or difficult. Obviously, the chief impact that ah, would be one of visual impact. We would see it. It would change the landscape. And then depending on the nature of the businesses and how close to the residential uses, you obviously would have that to deal with. You would also be on that side, which I guess is the east side of the road, we would be introducing, you would be introducing a whole new land use type or classification or scheme. Which could then put pressure ultimately, on the surrounding residential units. Folks might view it as a form of dis-investment. Folks might find that heck, if it’s business, then why don’t we sell our property and let it become business. When we introduce change in an area, we don’t always know where that change process will stop. And thus, it’s critical that we have some attention to how we balance between and amongst the two. But impacts typically are hours of operation, lighting, potential of noise, service deliveries. The Heathwood Shopping Center, before that was approved, the neighborhood interests got, in one sense focused on seemingly inconsequential things, but you drive up to a grocery store and you’ve got the chain, so to speak, the bell ringing thing that you would cross over. They didn’t want… the neighbors immediately adjacent, complained about when people would drive up, they would a, it would set off the bell ringing and that was disturbing to folks. Hours of operation, in terms of the gas and convenience store, lighting, when would gas be delivered, not be delivered, so those are some of the examples. (End of side 1 of tape.) (Begin side 2 of tape. Some words missing). Dr. Chandler: …planned commercial district process. Giving you a little bit more control. So one possible suggestion would be to speculate actively, well what if you put business uses there. Then brainstorm amongst yourselves what potential impact would result from that. In addition to the revenue, which could be a positive, would there be other things maybe not as positive. Mrs. Steger: Dr. Chandler, if Council does that rezoning, and we’re talking about by-right, does, would the Council be able to stipulate to the developer if he comes in and say he puts up berms and trees and things like that to knock the sound off the… Dr. Chandler: Whatever your ordinance calls for. Mrs. Steger: Right. Dr. Chandler : There’s an ordinance provision that ah… Mrs. Steger: Yes. Mr. Hawley: There’s a site plan revision, or site plan review and it does call for some screening of different types in B-2. Mrs. Steger: Yeah. Right. But that can be handled. Dr. Chandler: There are minimum things that must be present. And then beyond that, it would be a negotiated item. All I’ve got to do is satisfy for the, whatever the ordinance requires of me and it may well that I might be inclined to want to do more than the ordinance requires. Mrs. Steger: Thank you. Mayor Stewart: But ah, typically, once you give him by-right, all he has to do is what’s specified in the code and… Dr. Chandler: He’s got to meet the specifics of the code. Mayor Stewart: And you’re of control. Dr. Chandler: Exactly. It says 35 mph and we can choose to do 35 or 34 or take our chances and go a little faster, but all you gotta do is meet the intent and letter of the ordinance. Mayor Stewart: Anyone else on Council have any questions for Dr. Chandler.? Well, Dr. Chandler, we certainly appreciate you coming. Dr. Chandler: Well, you’re certainly welcome. Mayor Stewart: And ah, I’d like to personally say that I severely regret that you’re leaving the area and moving away to a different area. Dr. Chandler: Yeah, I’m going to be doing that next spring. Mayor Stewart: Separating, I presume, from Virginia Tech in the process. Dr. Chandler: Well, I retired from Tech in July and volunteer and will continue to volunteer and work with Virginia Tech through the Richmond offices, assuming we can keep our Richmond offices open. But ah, I did retire with the summer severance package. I was eligible in two years and will relocate to the greater Richmond area. Our three grown children live there and home for my wife and I is Norfolk. But it’s been a great 28 years in this part of the world and we’ll miss it I know, but we’ll be back. Mrs. Steger: And you will give up your Council job. Mayor Stewart: I think it’s a great loss to the Council of Blacksburg and… Dr. Chandler: I announced that decision today. I will resign from Council December 31st. Mayor Stewart: And it’s certainly a loss to the quality of zoning and the administration of zoning. Dr. Chandler: Well, we’re going to continue with the training programs through the Virginia Citizens Planning Association, so they’ll survive, but Council will ah, Council will do well in Blacksburg. They’ll do fine. Mayor Stewart: Bon Voyage. Thank you for coming. Dr. Chandler: You’re welcome.