HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-19-21 Minutes of the Pulaski Town Council Work Session held at 5:00 p.m. Tuesday, January 19,
2021 in the Council Chambers of the Municipal Building at 42 First Street, N.W. that included a
joint public hearing with the Planning Commission. The Town also provided a live-cast of the
proceedings on the Town's Facebook page with one member of the Planning Commission and
one member of Pulaski Area Transit participating via Zoom.
In attendance were:
Mayor: Shannon Collins, presiding
Councilmen Present: G. Tyler Clontz; Brooks Dawson; Gregory C. East;
Lane R. Penn; Michael P. Reis
Councilmen Absent: James A. Radcliffe
Planning Commissioners Chris Conner; Terry Hale; Janet Jonas (Zoom);
Present/Participating: Kevin Meyer, Chairman
Administration: Darlene L. Burcham, Town Manager
Legal Counsel Spencer A. Rygas, Town Attorney
Staff: Brady Deal, Planning/Economic Development
David Quesenberry, Clerk of Council
Jordan Whitt, Social Media Director
Others Present: Monica Musick Austin Stromme
Jennifer Viers (Zoom) Luke Wilson
1. Call to Order.
The meeting was called to order at 5:00 p.m. by Mayor Collins.
2. Roll Call.
Following the call to order, the roll was taken. Present were: Mayor Collins, Mr. Clontz, Mr.
Dawson, Mr. Penn and Mr. Reis. With a majority of Council members in attendance, a quorum
was present for the conduct of business. Absent from Roll Call was Mr. East and Mr. Radcliffe.
Mr. East entered the meeting at 5:01 p.m.
3. Modification of the Closed Session Agenda
No modifications were noted for the Closed Session Agenda.
4. Closed Session
Mayor Collins then asked for a motion to enter Closed Session for two matters: one item under
Va. Code 2.2-3711 (a) 3, discussion concerning acquisition or disposition of publicly held real
property; and one item under Va. Code 2.2-3711 (a) 7, consultation with legal counsel
concerning probable litigation.
Mr. Dawson moved to enter Closed Session on the stated items. The motion was seconded by
Mr. Clontz and approved on the following roll call vote:
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Lane R. Penn -Aye James A. Radcliffe -Absent
Brooks R. Dawson -Aye G. Tyler Clontz -Aye
Gregory C. East -Aye Michael P. Reis -Aye
Council entered Closed Session at 5:02 p.m.
5. Certification of Closed Session
Council returned from Closed Session at 5:59 p.m. Mayor Collins then requested a motion that
Council discussed only those two matters for which it went into Closed Session: one item under
Va. Code 2.2-3711 (a) 3, discussion concerning acquisition or disposition of publicly held real
property; and one item under Va. Code 2.2-3711 (a) 7, consultation with legal counsel
concerning probable litigation.
Mr. Penn moved to certify the Closed Session. The motion was seconded by Mr. Dawson and
approved on the following roll call vote:
Lane R. Penn -Aye James A. Radcliffe -Absent
Brooks R. Dawson -Aye G. Tyler Clontz -Aye
Gregory C. East -Aye Michael P. Reis -Aye
6. Modification to the Public Session Agenda
Mayor Collins noted there were no modifications to the Public Session agenda.
7. Welcome to Guests and Visitors.
Mayor Collins welcomed all guests attending either on-line or in person.
8. Joint Public Hearing of the Town Council and the Planning Commission.
a. Planning Commission Case No. 2021-01-Zoning Amendment to allow Ground Floor
Apartments in the B-3 Central Business District as a Special Exception
Mayor Collins then moved on to the joint hearing concerning a zoning amendment to allow
ground floor apartments in the B-3 Central Business District as a special exception.
1. Call Planning Commission to Order and Roll Call
Chairman Meyer called the Planning Commission to order. Commissioners present were Mr.
Chris Conner; Mr. Terry Hale; Vice-Chairman Janet Jonas (Zoom) and Chairman Kevin Meyer.
2. Staff Report and Applicant's Presentation
Mr. Deal then gave the staff report concerning the Town's reception of a request from
Aggregate Capital for a zoning amendment to amend the existing language in the B-3 District
(Sec. 4.10.2-2) prohibiting dwelling units on the ground floor to permitting dwelling units on the
ground floor.
Both VHDA and DCHD had recommended that the project at 37 West Main Street use more of
the buildings space for housing. The applicants had also received word that senior citizens had
expressed an interest in living Downtown but could not because of issues and concerns
involving the use of stairs in accessing second floor apartments.
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In response to the state agencies concerns, the applicants proposed to construct three
apartments on the south side of the building adjacent to the creek with a combined square
footage of 2,775 square feet. Access to the units would be on the creek side of the building.
The purpose of the hearing was not to grant applicant approval for the use but to approve or
deny the amendment request. If approved the request for the apartments would have to be
reviewed by both the Planning Commission and Town Council. The request could be subject to
or limited by conditions imposed by the Commission. Mr. Deal then concluded his presentation.
Mr. Luke Wilson and Mr. Austin Stromme of Aggregate Capital then addressed Council
concerning their application. Mr. Stromme emphasized that businesses were expanding and
locating in the Downtown area (e.g. Board Shop) and all four apartments that were part of their
project were rented. He noted the regional demand for housing, due in part to over enrollment at
Virginia Tech, and observed that Pulaski offered a great opportunity to have affordable housing.
Regional, state and federal agencies had also taken notice of the Downtown efforts, which Mr.
Stromme hoped would provide the momentum to grow Pulaski's Downtown into a destination for
various activities.
Mr. Allison said a lot had been learned from the first project which responded to a great demand
for smaller commercial buildings or apartments. Those apartments that had been built were both
affordable and of high quality. However senior citizens and others with mobility issues were
eliminated from considering residency in these second-floor apartments due to the access being
by stairwell,. The apartments were ideal for those persons with mobility issues but they could
not traverse the stairs to get to them.
Mr. Stromme reviewed the participants in the public private partnerships (e.g. VHDA, DHCD,
Pulaski County, etc.). VHDA had provided a letter of support for the proposed apartments and
support had also been received from Mr. Sweet, Pulaski County's administrator. Investor
support for the next project amounted to $3 million for 37 West Main Street which was one of
the largest commercial spaces in the Downtown that could be a retail and housing attraction. He
felt that it could help in boosting the Downtown population and foot traffic.
Mr. Allison noted that conversations with other developers indicated a reduced demand for
5,000-20,000 sq. ft. commercial spaces which indicated that the traditional idea of a large
commercial space is not as necessary as in the past. Given the size of this building, there was
still adequate space for commercial and for three apartments in the rear.
Mr. Stromme then reviewed the proposed layout for 37 West Main St. with the apartments
opening onto the alley on the creek side which complied with the CDBG plan that the Town
came up with concerning the "creek walk". He added that for access for ground floor apartments
it would be preferable to have access off a neighboring alley or other thoroughfare. The
presence of the pocket park and the neighboring alleyway would be perfect for potential
residences, given the scenario that the entrances would not be on Main Street.
Mr. Allison concluded that they were appearing before Council and the Commission for the
amendment so they could have safe, accessible apartments for those in the community who
otherwise could not be tenants Downtown given their mobility limitations. There was also the
possibility, as in other communities, of restricting residences in downtown corridors but in some
• downtowns it might not make sense to have these restrictions on that main street corridor. The
Congress for New Urbanism proposed that to allow new businesses to thrive in a downtown, it
would require an increase in foot traffic by having more people living in that area who would be
Page 3 of 15/January 19, 2021
customers outside those businesses peak hours. With those comments the presentation
concluded. 111
3. Questions from Town Council and the Planning Commission
Town Council and the Planning Commission then questioned the applicants.
Mr. Reis asked would the amendment for a special exception still require a special process and
would not be by right. Mrs. Burcham said that was correct.
Mr. Dawson voiced a concern that first floor residents would be in spaces intended for
retail/commercial uses. He asked if it would be possible to have an exception that would define
the intentions of that exemption to not have residences in a forward facing location. Mrs.
Burcham responded that the special exception process, if the prohibition was removed, would
require the group (Aggregate Capital) to come back. The Planning,Commission could stipulate
not just rear access but other provisions allowing the request to be shaped (e.g. number of
apartments). It was a fluid matter in which the Planning Commission made a recommendation
and Town Council made the final decision, depending if the amendment was approved this
evening.
Mr. Dawson felt it was important to distinguish what the goal was and not leave it open for the
exception to be in a negative fashion. Mr. Stromme responded that in talking with others it
seemed that having ground floor apartments on the front would not be desirable, but having
them in the rear was acceptable.
Mr. East stated the amendment was to permit ground floor dwelling units as opposed to their
being prohibited. He asked if there was a need to expand that slightly to eliminate the possibility
of a store front apartment. That clarification he thought might prevent that since ground floor
apartments on Main Street were undesirable. He asked if the matter could be left open for a
special exception conversation or should it be added to the existing request to eliminate it from
Main Street. Mrs. Burcham said the exception could be modified, and given the joint hearing the
Planning Commission could consider and deliberate it after which they would make a
recommendation. The recommendation may or may not have the additional conditions, but it
was within Council's purview to modify it in any way to make it restrictive. As of today, if that
language was changed as requested, nobody could put any kind of apartment on the first floor
without going through the special exception process. She said it would be easier for persons to
know in advance that it(ground floor apartments facing Main St.) would not be considered if it
was something that Council was interested in.
Mr. Penn said he liked the concept of ground floor apartments but asked if tenants using the
long alley to reach the apartments had been considered. Mr. Allison responded they had been
asked about use of the long alley. He contrasted the distance walking from a parking lot to
taking stairs in that there was a safety factor. When it came from traversing a parking lot or
walking to an apartment in back, the safety factor was different. Mayor Collins noted that even if
apartments were facing Main Street, they still could not park right in front of the apartment full
time so they would still have to walk.
Noting the unusual circumstances of the meeting and since the Planning Commission had to
look at the matter first, Mrs. Burcham suggested the Planning Commission be given the
opportunity ask questions of the applicants since they had to issue a recommendation. She
thanked all who came or logged in to participate in the discussion.
Page 4 of 15/January 19, 2021
Mr. Allison asked to add to his comments on the elderly, mentioning that those using a cane,
wheelchair or walker would find it impossible to live in the Downtown due to the stairs.
Mrs. Jonas commended the applicants for a great job on their explanation concerning the
proposed amendment, but asked the question as to why ground floor apartments were not
allowed in the first place and what other concerns might be considered. Mr. Stromme responded
that parking was an issue and had been discussed before the hearing. There were parking
areas available but they were spread out. Regarding Main Street, new parking signs were
installed, but parking was not being enforced. Mrs. Burcham responded that not only was there
enforcement but some vehicles had been towed.
Mr. Allison noted the importance of small businesses and that they constituted the fabric of a
downtown and a vibrant main street. The original code was put in to prevent ground floor
apartments facing Main Street, nor should there be. That was his explanation for the prohibition
in the first place. Mrs. Jonas thanked him for his comments.
Mr. Deal commented that the purpose of zoning was to (1) maintain the character of various
districts; and, (2) separate incompatible uses. The Downtown area was not intended for
residential uses facing Main Street, but for retail and commercial businesses. In this regard he
thought: (1) keeping apartments in a certain part of the building was one issue; and, (2) if having
first floor apartments that do not face Main Street change or are detrimental to the character of
the district.
Chairman Meyer ventured that part of the reason that ground floor apartments weren't originally
included was that there was upstairs housing which had access from Main Street. He expressed
concern over ground floor apartments being located in the Flood Plain and having people living
on the first floor caught in a flood at night.
Mrs. Jonas said that in the time she had lived here, there were ground floor apartments in
buildings in this district. There was a precedent there which she felt would be another
consideration.
There being no further questions, both bodies moved to the public hearing portion of the
agenda.
4. Open Public Hearing for Public Comments-Town Council
Mayor Collins opened the public hearing for Town Council at 6:22 p.m.
5. Open Public Hearing for Public Comments-Planninq Commission
Chairman Meyer opened the public hearing for the Planning Commission at 6:22 p.m.
6. Close Public Hearing-Planning Commission
There being no comments, Chairman Meyer closed the Planning Commission public hearing at
6:33 p.m.
7. Close Public Hearing-Town Council
Likewise receiving no comments, Mayor Collins closed the Town Council public hearing at 6:33
p.m.
Page 5 of 15/January 19, 2021
8. Planning Commission Retires to Discuss Issue
The Planning Commission retired from the joint hearing and began discussion of the application
at 6:33 p.m.
9. Consent Agenda.
a. Consideration of December 15, 2020 Council Meeting Minutes
Mayor Collins then asked for a motion regarding consideration of the December 15, 2020
Council meeting minutes.
Mr. Dawson moved to approve the December 15, 2020 Council minutes as written. The motion
was seconded by Mr. Clontz and approved by a roll call vote of Council as follows:
Lane R. Penn -Aye James A. Radcliffe -Absent
Brooks R. Dawson -Aye G. Tyler Clontz -Aye
Gregory C. East -Aye Michael P. Reis -Aye
10 Memorandum of Understanding-Calfee Community and Cultural Center
Mrs. Burcham next reported that the draft Memorandum of Understanding placed before
Council (MOU) had been reviewed by the Town Attorney. An amendment had been made
adding the Housing Authority to the signature page since they had title to the building (Calfee
School) and would transfer the structure per the MOU. An effort to have a Housing Authority
meeting before the end of the month was being made.
Mrs. Burcham reminded Council that the vacancy on the Housing Authority had Mr. Penn
appointed to serve in that position. As soon as the Authority could be convened, according to
the State Code a Chairman, Vice-Chairman and Secretary would be selected if necessary. She
hoped that the officials would be in place to be a signatory to the MOU, if Council was prepared
to approve it this evening.
Mr. Reis moved to approve the Memorandum of Understanding as written having been
approved by staff and the Town Attorney. Mr. Penn seconded the motion which was approved
on the following roll call vote:
Lane R. Penn -Aye James A. Radcliffe -Absent
Brooks R. Dawson -Aye G. Tyler Clontz -Aye
Gregory C. East -Aye Michael P. Reis -Aye
11. Council Comments.
Mayor Collins asked for comments from the Council while awaiting the time for the PAT
presentation.
Mr. Penn said he had no comment.
Mr. Dawson asked if there were regulations for the alleyway behind 37 West Main since it
appeared to be a tight fit relative to the creek wall and it was under discussion for pedestrian
use. Given some uses he noticed, he asked if the alley was still drivable. Mrs. Burcham replied
that the garbage trucks used the alley for collections. There were buildings that had rear access
since she had noticed people using them and walking the alley. She suggested that markings
might be used to mark pedestrian use from driving usage. The alley was open with the
Page 6 of 15/January 19, 2021
exception of that part behind Mr. Jeanes property which is in his ownership and is not
technically used. There was minimal traffic there with the primary traffic being the garbage truck.
Mr. Dawson in looking at the long term concerning redevelopment, asked what the alley use
would be. If the hopes were to have pedestrian use of that area, it might require considering
possible changes to the garbage pickup location to make the space for pedestrians through
study of possible conflicts with other area residents. Uses appeared to be conflicted in possibly
an unsafe way. While there was not much use presently, given the property owner and tenants
using the alley, that was something should be looked at.
Mr. Dawson's second concern was that parking was not supposed to be on Main Street, yet the
developments needed viable, attractive parking lots that someone would want to use. While
there were marked parking lots in several locations, as noted by Mr. East, all of those lots are
marked as prohibited use (e.g. permit parking only). This would be noticed by persons intending
to do business Downtown. The one lot flagged for public parking is not striped, not lit, had poor
paving, etc. and was he felt, the poorest lot the Town had. He suggested that improving the
parking had not been discussed very much.
Mrs. Burcham said there were a couple of items in progress. One item was Downtown lighting
of which an inventory had been done. Both P.D. and Public Works believed there was a
sufficient number of lights, but not the right kind of lights. AEP she noted was getting ready to do
a massive overhaul of lighting which would use replacements with higher lumens. She
suggested it was not that more fixtures were needed, but better lights.
Regarding parking, Mrs. Burcham said there was adequate parking currently on-street and in
parking lots, which were inherited from the former Parking Authority, which were available and
charged no fees. If development efforts were successful, a time would come when there would
have to be charges for parking or creation of more parking. In addition to signage and
enforcement, options were being reviewed for Downtown residents (e.g. residential permits).
Problems appeared to involve residents having shift work or irregular hours. Parking problems
she added indicated that the community was growing.
The Town was aware of these issues during discussion of the loan subordination with Mr.
Critchfield as he sought permanent financing for another building. The Town did have to certify
that parking was available in Downtown spots. With more development, Mrs. Burcham said she
expected more developers may request something similar. A time would come she thought,
there would have to be charges for parking. If these issues were not discussed in advance they
would cause future problems. Hopefully the Planning Commission in its review of the
Comprehensive Plan would look at the future needs and suggest how to approach those needs.
Mr. East brought up the need to understand what was required for fire access if someone came
back with a special exception. Mrs. Burcham responded that she thought that travel on the alley
was one-way. Questions had been asked if the alley between the Fine Arts Center and the
Jeanes property was one way or two way. Mr. East noted his concern with fire vehicle access.
Mr. East, mentioning his work with the Friends of Peak Creek (FOPC) and the New River
Conservancy (NRC), mentioned their efforts to find the owners of the low water dam at Duncan
Bridge and First Street, N.E. He asked the Town Manager and Town Attorney if they could
either identify the owners or the path to take if ownership could not be established by the
February 16t work session. If the dam could be dealt with it would improve the flow in areas
where sediment had built up.
Page 7 of 15/January 19, 2021
Mr. Rygas said his original understanding from Engineering was that a title search was required
and a firm was contacted. The issue was that unless there was a specific grant of property
underlying creeks, rivers in the Commonwealth were owned by the state. The next issue was
who would you deal with at the state since nothing had been found indicating a specific owner.
Contact was made with the Dept. of Conservation and Recreation (DCR), who FOPC had
contacted earlier in the summer. Mr. Rygas was informed DCR had been contacted earlier in
the summer on the same manner and said the dam was not of the size and height that DCR
regulated. He was told to contact the Dept. of Environmental Quality and search local land
records. Unfortunately, since local land records do not have a tax identifier number, it is likely
that nothing would be found. Mr. Rygas said the next step was to look at the owners of the
banks and see if they had any issues with it.
After reviewing some of the probable owners, Mr. Rygas proposed that the plan going forward
would be to make contact with those parties owning the banks and have a publication to see if
anyone else had an interest. This would be done in light of the uncertainty in searching for
something that did not lend itself to normal research of a particular parcel of land.
In discussions with the New River Conservancy, Mr. Rygas found out that this was what the
Conservancy was asking for in the first place in identifying an owner that they could go to and
attempt to get approval from them or if not, try to identify people who would have objections.
You might not be able to find the owner, but you could find those who would object.
Mr. East noted that the flooding issue obligated the Town to do what it could. He asked
regarding notifications would the Town be responsible. Mr. Rygas said if the Town was
removing the dam, then it would be up to the Town to make the notifications. The governing
body and the other organizations would most likely be the ones to move forward with it.
Although the Town was not the owner, it would be stepping into that role even though there was
nothing that said the Town had to do it. Mr. Rygas said it sounded possibly that the Va. Marine
Resources Commission (VMRC) might be the recipient of the necessary documentation, if
permits were required which they would review. They indicated that they were not involved in
determination of ownership or who needed to be involved. Ultimately since the area was in the
Town, the Town could take the lead in going through the processes. It was unclear who owned
the dam.
Mr. East proposed that there would be notification of property owners followed by public
notification which was a process that could be started now.
Mrs. Burcham added that Council had heard a presentation from the groups and agreed that
certain things should be done. While resources were available to assist, she could not suggest
removal of the dam was the Town's responsibility. This might be the impetus for groups to
secure funding that might be available. Mr. East agreed. Mrs. Burcham suggested continuing
with the idea but not to expect the Public Works staff to do that. The Town could not go that far.
Mr. East agreed and said he was more interested in the documentation and legal aspects and
how to assist movement past those issues, then consider funding. He was interested in clearing
that first threshold.
Mrs. Burcham informed Council that the Planning Commission was prepared to share their
recommendation.
Page 8 of 15/January 19, 2021
Mr. Deal reported that the Planning Commission recommended to permit the zoning
amendment and submitted a signed resolution to the Clerk which detailed the recommendation
which did not have any conditions. Because it was a special exception use, Mr. Deal said per
project basis it would be best to go through that special exception process. If there was an
application, it would be subject to limiting conditions.
Mr. Reis felt the recommendation made sense, since the Commission or Council could change
things. No statute could cover all circumstances but he felt that Council could rely on the staff
and professionals to vet the proposals appropriately. There could be an occasion where a
ground floor apartment would be appropriate.
Mr. East did not disagree but felt when the time came that could be discussed.
Mrs. Burcham suggested that Council could delay action until after the other presentation to
allow time to consider the recommendation and not feel hurried by it. While an ordinance that
approved the recommendation was being prepared, it would be ready in a few minutes. Council
thanked Mr. Deal as he concluded his presentation.
12. Presentation by Pulaski Area Transit.
Council next heard a request for funding from Monica Musick, Transit Manager for Pulaski Area
Transit. Ms. Jennifer Viers joined the presentation via Zoom.
Following introductions, Ms. Music gave a brief background summary of the history of PAT
including switching to route based service in 2015. Consultants had been hired to add a feeder
route in. The effort was behind due to COVID which did not allow public meetings to be held
which were postponed until the summer. The apartments on Bob White could not be added but
DRPT did allow a small change to add an additional stop at DMV that would allow the
apartments on Bob White to be reached by ADA. The change was to begin February 1st
Mr. East asked for clarification when the service to the apartments would begin, Mrs. Musick
said February 1st
COVID regulations allowed only four persons on a bus at one time. To maintain ridership,
drivers were to instructed to drive off at the place where the next person is going and get back
on the route. There were no fares charged during this fiscal year. Passenges work masks and
drivers were protected with shields around their seat. CARES Act funding would support the
program 100%for the current FY 21, but there was no promise of CARES Act funding for FY
22. Grants would be applied for from DPRT through February 1St. Mrs. Music hoped that state
funding would be the same as in the past and requested level funding of$70,000 from the
Town.
Mr. Dawson asked if PAT had 41 vehicles. Mrs. Musick replied that PAT had 12 vehicles, with
Senior Services and Pulaski Transit together totaling 39 vehicles. Mr. Dawson asked if funding
was separate from the Senior Service vehicles. Mrs. Musick said that was correct since they
were two separate programs. Mr. Dawson asked if the Town did maintenance on the Senior
Services vehicles. Mrs. Musick said some were serviced by the Town, but servicing for vehicles
was done in locations throughout the service areas the vehicles were in. Mr. Dawson asked if
the $70,000 contribution was in addition to maintenance costs and fuel throughout the year.
Mrs. Musick responded that payment was made on the vehicles each month.
Page 9 of 15/January 19, 2021
Mr. Reis asked how the ridership of PAT had changed over the last 3-5 years. Mrs. Musick
responded that it had changed significantly since the change to a fixed route service. Twenty111
dollar monthly passes had been instituted to increase ridership and options to reach outlying
area were being considered. Mr. Reis asked about the ridership change to which Mrs. Musick
said that ridership had dropped from 7,000 per month to 2,000 per month due to the fixed route
change.
Mr. Penn questioned if the ridership dropped so much, why was the request being made for the
same amount of money. Mrs. Music responded that PAT was using the same amount of drivers.
She thought the stop at DMV would be huge considering the apartment complex on Bob White
would be able to get ADA service.
Mr. Reis asked about the breakdown between accessible and non-accessible passengers. Mrs.
Musick responded she could supply the percentages. Mr. Reis asked if there was a way to have
a hybrid system with regular routes and some demand service to get persons in outlying area.
He noted that Norfolk had overhauled its system and asked if something could be considered
here. Mr. Musick responded that PAT was looking at going from two routes to one large route
loop with "feeder routes"from outlying areas. The ADA vehicles are used to get people to the
routes.
Mr. East stated that ridership dropped when the system stopped on demand service and was
not due to COVID. He asked if the goal was to maximize ridership as inexpensively as possible.
Mrs. Musick said yes and that it was realized that with demand service the transit had grown
such that more drivers and vehicles were required which would increase the costs. This was
why PAT had approached DRPT who suggested going to the set routes. Mr. East observed that
the contraction was made to allow PAT to live within its means.
Mr. East asked what the goal of the organization was. Mrs. Musick responded that the goal was
to reach people in the town who could not reach bus stops. Mr. East asked if there were a
certain number of riders as a goal. Mrs. Musick was not certain.
Mr. Dawson thought he remembered that the route change was a forced decision for the
funding from the state or the federal level. He asked was it not required by them for us to be on
that system (fixed route) or was it a choice of ours. Mrs. Musick responded that most public
transportation was not on demand, but discussions had continued with DPRT concerning
demand service growth and Council had received complaints on long wait times for service.
Those factors were part of the process. Mr. Dawson then asked if the fixed route system was
not required to get funding from the state or federal level. Mrs. Musick said she was not sure
about that but DPRT said it was rare to operate the system, the way we were. Mr. Dawson said
he understood that there was a negative aspect as to how it was being used and was under the
impression the change was forced.
Mr. Dawson questioned if there was some flexibility available without losing funding to make
changes. Mrs. Musick responded yes, but there had to be public hearings and public meetings
before that could take place. If not for COVID, that could have already taken place. Mr. East
asked about state funding and observed both the Town and County had appropriated level
funding. Mrs. Musick said she hoped state and federal funding would also remain level.
Mr. East, given Mr. Penn's question noted that expenses had also remained level. Mrs. Musick
noted that despite the route change, the number of drivers was not reduced nor were the
number of vehicles to keep wait time to 35-40 minutes.
Page 10 of 15/January 19, 2021
Mayor Collins asked if someone could use a special process to be picked up. Mrs. Musick said
they could file an ADA application. Mrs. Burcham asked if there was a notice requirement for the
ADA. Mrs. Musick responded 24 hours was needed. Mrs. Burcham then asked if someone gave
a time for an appointment(e.g. 2:00 p.m.), how was a return visit arranged. Mrs. Musick said the
client would have to give a time they might be finished, but if they weren't ready they would call
in. Every effort was made to get the client back.
Mr. Rygas asked what were some of the routes with the Senior Center vans and other vehicles;
where did they go and what did they do. Mrs. Musick said Senior Service vehicles were used to
take people 60 and older to medical appointments, friendship cafes and deliver homebound
meals in the New River Valley. Mr. Rygas ventured there was an overlap of services for seniors
qualified under ADA and served through the fleet through the transit service. Mrs. Musick said
once PAT went to the fixed route, those persons could call the Agency on Aging and get
transportation to the doctor. Mr. Rygas observed there were multiple resources for people over
60 and for those under 60 needing special services that required the ADA application who might
experience difficulty due to the use of transit vehicles. Mrs. Musick discussed how evaluation of
requests for transportation was done. Mr. Rygas understood there was an internal process by
which requests were evaluated as to what program was applicable.
Mrs. Viers said there was a mobility coordinator who worked with those under 60 and that
Medicaid paid for those under 60 who qualified. Mrs. Musick said the mobility coordinator
worked with persons of all ages who could be referred to the appropriate option. Mr. Rygas said
that the use of the Senior Center, Pulaski Area Transit, and Medicaid transport, appeared to
shrink the number of persons who needed the ADA service, but provided different services for
different needs.
There being no further comments, the presentation concluded. Mrs. Musick then asked for a
motion for level funding before she sent out her grant application on February 1St
Mr. Reis moved that for Fiscal 2022, the Town would continue to provide the same level of
funding (for PAT) as had been done in the past. Mr. East seconded the motion.
Discussion followed with Mr. East wanting to see in the future a breakdown of activities and
goals. He added that he was uncomfortable since the Town was going "status quo" but
understood the current events with COVID, etc. Mr. East said in the future that he wanted to see
information such as where the organization has been; where it is headed and what the goals
are, an overview of expenses and an understanding where the $70,000 went. Mrs. Musick said
she wished to provide quarterly updates.
Mr. Reis also suggested information be provided on ridership levels; number of customers who
have mobility problems; a general sense of expenditures, large expenditures (new vehicles);
and maintenance costs through the Town. He suggested a one page document that could be
refined as needed.
Mrs. Burcham commented that during earlier meetings with Monica and Jennifer in December,
that there were two issues that needed to be looked at. The first was that the fares had not
changed since the program was started. The reason given was if fares increased then there
would be a reduction in the federal and state money. She felt it was unreasonable not to have
fares increased and only one option was explored which was the monthly pass.
Page 11 of 15/January 19, 2021
The other issue she mentioned was that the drivers actually stop at the stops. She mentioned
complaints from citizens that the drivers slow down and if there are no persons present continue
on. This prevented determining the true number of stops. There had been problems at the
Senior Center where members could not get out in time to get to the-bus. Mrs. Burcham said if
the location was called a "stop", then the buses needed to stop and give people the opportunity
to ride it. In other transit systems fare increases were usually resisted, but it did not necessarily
have a negative impact on ridership and there were costs that could not be contained
indefinitely with level funding.
Mrs. Musick asked to be advised of any complaints received. She again mentioned that a fare
increase would result in a loss of state/federal funding which might result in the need for more
local support.
Mr. Reis mentioned that many transit systems were moving to zero dollar fares. The idea was
that it increased efficiency and increased ridership. Transit was an economic driver which would
hopefully generate more than the Town's $70,000 investment. Transit was known for giving
more dollars back in tax revenue than rates.
Mr. Dawson said his concern was the transit was at 7,000 people. Yet now it had the same
expense and driver's hours, yet reduced ridership, which was not a forced change and the
system could handle it. If the change was not required, what was the benefit for changing the
system if it reduced ridership? In simplifying the system for ourselves, something was lost from
the goal of getting people to use the system. Mrs. Musick said she would get back to DRPT and
get more guidance from them.
Mr. East said he recalled the cost per rider was $3.80 with the ridership up. He speculated that
the cost per rider was through the roof, which was not serving the people as well as they could
be served. The idea was to get more riders for less and maintain a certain level of quality
service. Mrs. Musick said she would look atthat. Mr. East added the quarterly update would be
appropriate.
Mr. Rygas asked if the annual date for filing was February 1St. Mrs. Music confirmed that. Mr.
Rygas ventured that it would be better for Council to have this meeting in December since they
were now in the situation where they could not do much of anything given the February 1St
deadline nor had time for feedback. Referencing Mr. Dawson's comment, Mr. Rygas noted the
concern that the routes were changed to decreasing ridership 50% yet expenses remained the
same. Mr. Rygas recalled that using the service as a cab service was not in the scope of how
the funding was to be. Going back to a route service was to make it comply with its funding
basis. The high ridership number was a fictitious number in the first place since the system was
not to be administered that way (demand service).
Mrs. Musick said a previous Town Manager gradually changed it without going through the
steps and it got to a demand service. Mrs. Musick said when she had a compliance review, it
was questioned why routes were not used. Mr. Rygas asked if Pulaski Area Transit or a Town
Manager made the change. Mrs. Musick said the Transit Manager made the changes.
Mr. Reis suggested that the Town could make the case that(demand service) was a viable
model unique to this community. Mr. Dawson observed that it would not cost more money. Mr.
Reis suggested given the way the law was written, the Town may have to request some form of
exception and demonstrate its case within reason.
Page 12 of 15/January 19, 2021
Ms. Viers noted that Mrs. Musick's proposed plan was a combination of the demand and route
approaches. Mr. Reis understood that if a person could not get to a stop, they could be taken to
the route. Mrs. Musick said stops and scheduling for ADA requests were under review. Mayor
Collins asked that Council be kept updated. Mr. Reis said the Town would be glad to assist
however it may.
Mayor Collins then called for a vote on the motion to approve the $70,000 contribution to
Pulaski Area Transit. The motion was approved by Roll Call vote as follows:
Lane R. Penn -Aye James A. Radcliffe -Absent
Brooks R. Dawson -Aye G. Tyler Clontz -Aye
Gregory C. East -Aye Michael P. Reis -Aye
13. Council Comments Continued
After the PAT presentation, Council resumed its Council Comments.
Mr. Clontz said he had no comment.
Mr. Reis noted budget preparation was starting, and that he was trying to understand the
context of expenditures, where they went, and the metrics used by departments. He inquired
further about the context of expenditures in budget approval.
Mrs. Burcham said the rationale was reflected in the weekly report to Council to let them know
what employees were doing. She reflected that Council did not have an appreciation for what
staff was working on. Some of this could be refined as the budget progressed.
Mr. Dawson thought that the Town Manager's role was to run the Town. The detail were in her
work. What he felt Council should do was create a better framework for her to work within (e.g.
CIP; Financial Plan, etc.). The Council would set the goals for the money, while the Manager
presented a budget that matched up with where Council wanted to go. Mr. Reis stressed the
role of metrics in setting goals
Mrs. Burcham felt the community did not understand how few people the Town had and what
they were responsible for. She felt Council should be given a sound basis of understanding and
any changes in the budget. If more was requested, Council should know why and what it would
accomplish. Her job was to make sure funds were spent as well as can be, so that if more funds
were requested they could be justified. She felt it was unfortunate that Council received an out
of budget request before it had a look at the whole budget.
Mr. Reis then asked if the employees were getting vaccinated. Mrs. Burcham reported that
approximately 30% of employees had requested vaccination. If they had not signed up they
would have to wait for a later time. Mr. Reis then inquired if there had been any outreach for a
mass vaccination event in town. Mrs. Burcham said that some had been held in other
communities, but that the Senior Center had been taking seniors for vaccination.
Mayor Collins said he had spoken to the Chamber last Monday, and made a presentation
outlining the activities of the Town. Despite the circumstances of the past year, he said he felt
that the Town had been going very well and thanked Mrs. Burcham for her work. He wished
people would realize that not everything was visible but a lot went on that was not seen. He
complemented Mrs. Burcham on standing up to the hard questions that had been asked. Mayor
Collins asked for people to give her a chance; give the staff and Council a chance; and pray for
Page 13 of 15/January 19, 2021
the Town. He likened Pulaski to a phoenix, down but then ready to rise from the flames. Mayor
Collins thanked Mrs. Burcham, all the employees, and felt the Town had a good crew.
. 14 Consideration of Planning Commission Recommendation-Continued
Council returned to consideration of the zoning amendment. Mr. Dawson asked for clarification
that the quoted section of the zoning ordinance was for special exceptions. Mr. Reis said it was
and that the proposed amendment was one of several special exceptions.
Mr. East said that in lights of other comments apartment living on Main Street was something
that was not desired. Leaving the door open was something that did not have to be done. If the
amendment were approved the door would be left open for future debates on apartments on
Main Street. Mr. East said he would feel more comfortable to amend the section to permit
apartments on the off Main Street ground floor or some variant. He wanted to "box"the issue in
so there would be no expectations for place a dwelling on Main Street.
Mr. Reis suggested adding a provision to the language that the dwelling units would not face
Main Street. Mr. Clontz felt that, being a special exception, future Councils could amend it
again. Mr. Reis said it was not a use by right but was subject to special conditions. Mr. Dawson
mentioned that both the Planning Commission and the Council would have to be fine with a
special exception.
Mrs. Burcham reminded the Commission they were free to reject or amend at any time the
Planning Commission's recommendation as well as approve it
After extensive discussion on existing ground floor apartments, concern over application to the
entire B-3 district, as well as potential negative effects on retail business development, and
possible future amendments and recommendations from the Planning Commission, Mr. Reis
moved to approve the ordinance (Ordinance 2021-01) as drafted and that the Town Manager
get proposed language from the Planning Commission to limit that application in the ordinance.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Clontz and approved on the following roll call vote:
Lane R. Penn -Nay James A. Radcliffe -Absent
Brooks R. Dawson -Aye G. Tyler Clontz -Aye
Gregory C. East -Aye Michael P. Reis -Aye
15. Manager's Report.
Mrs. Burcham said she felt the community often misunderstood the roles of all persons present.
The Mayor because of his ceremonial responsibilities was seen out a lot. Because of the Town
Manager's role in implementing the Town's policies, it was not generally understood that the
Manager didn't do anything that the Council doesn't support and approve.
In that there was a decision making process, Mrs. Burcham said she would be interested in the
Council at a future date sharing with her and Mr. Whitt ways in which the public could be
educated in a better way to understand what the process is since it is a Council-Manager form
of local government, where the Council functions as the legislative body. Council may have met
citizens or groups that it could assist with getting the message out, because it involves all
members working together. She added she was pleased with the Mayor mentioning the staff in
his remarks and felt the staff had been responsive to a lot of changes that had been made and
would be made. Changes mentioned included direct deposit for new employees and automation
of the check writing function.
Page 14 of 15/January 19, 2021
Mrs. Burcham said that the new Human Resources person would report on February 1St with the
first possible task being the rewriting of the Town's personnel policies. In addition, she hoped to
have a draft Capital Improvement Plan for Council's review for the February 16th work session.
Concerning the pandemic, Mrs. Burcham said the Town buildings and staff had been prepared
to make them safe and highlighted the recent cleaning of the Municipal Building ductwork. The
Senior Center had to be temporarily closed because of problems encountered with the heating
system. Under consideration was relocating the Senior Center activities to an alternate site once
a determination of what work was needed was made. She noted that the Senior Center Director,
Ms. Hopkins, had called every senior to apprise them of developments. There were staff who
were extending themselves to ensure the Town was as responsive as possible in this
environment.
Mrs. Burcham also expressed her appreciation to the Council for the support she had received.
Mr. East said that having served for some time he thought operations were the most efficient he
had seen in his time on Council. It had been a pleasure so far and it was appreciated. Mrs.
Burcham responded that we would keep working on it.
16. Reminder of Future Meetings and Adjournment.
Mayor Collins reminded Council of the upcoming Council meeting on February 2, 2021 with the
Closed Session starting at 5:30 p.m. and the Public Session starting at 7:00 p.m. and the
Council Work Session on February 16, 2021, with the Closed Session starting at 5:00 p.m. and
the Public Session beginning at 6:30 p.m.
There being no further business, Mayor Collins called for a motion to adjourn. A motion to
adjourn was made by Mr. Reis, seconded by Mr. Clontz and approved by unanimous voice vote
at 8:45 p.m.
Approved: \El —
W,Shannon Collins
Mayor
ATTEST:
/ J/ ?
David N. Quesenberry
Clerk of Council
. Page 15 of 15/January 19, 2021